Hosts Janet Kira Lessin and Dr. Sasha (Alex) Lessin interview interviewed Tracy Elise, Mystic Mother of Mother Medicine Wheel,& Phoenix Goddess Temple; Radical Tantrist, Priestess, Whole Body Healer, Magnetic Touch Teacher, founder of Phoenix & Sedona, Arizona Goddess/Tantric Temples. We are joined by Dave in Phoenix (see bio below). Interview is on Sunday, 04/13/14 on the Sacred Matrix, Revolution Radio (www.freedomslips.com), Studio B from 8 to 10 PM, Eastern time.
Tracy shares her struggle to share sacred tantra in Phoenix and Sedona. Dave in Phoenix, who assists Mother Tracy’s defense, details how the State’s attack on tantra as a religion is pushed by a Catholic Maricopa County Prosecutor who wants not only to keep the Temple closed, but also to imprison Tracy. Hear how Arizona tries to murder freedom of religion and jail Mother Tracy for preaching and teaching love.
Another year’s gone by. See the previous interview at
Bio: Dave in Phoenix ~ No photos of Dave available
Long Dave Bio 🙂
I come from a very conservative background. 30+ years ago I was very active in evangelical, conservative ministries, including Bible Study Fellowship, Christian Business Men’s Committee, as well as serving as deacon in a conservative Presbyterian Church. For many years I believed in the inerrant word of God–God said it and that settles it.
But I met a couple where both husband and wife were going to Lutheran Theological Seminary to be ministers. They started pointing out how in Hebrew and Greek there were obvious contradictions in scripture and some things I thought were crystal clear were quite foggy. Being interested in supporting my conservative beliefs concerning sexuality, I set out to do more research to prove my position correct that sex was wrong unless you were married and then only with your wife. I read many books by theologians and those that were experts in Greek and Hebrew and slowly, over time, I found the evidence was overwhelming that I had been very wrong in my traditional beliefs. I became very upset that the church would mistranslate and misapply the bible to promote an agenda, which was not based on the original biblical texts.
In the mid 1980’s I attended many Stan Dale’s Human Awareness Institute’s “Sex, Love and Intimacy” workshops in Calif., where I learned and experienced the group dynamics of true love, intimacy and fulfilling sexuality far beyond just thrusting intercourse. While these groups were often closer to New Age type beliefs, I saw more Christ like love than what I had ever experienced in the traditional church. Too often the church is too busy reaching UP to God to reach OUT to each other. There are more people in the world starving for love and affection than starving for food, but when it comes to meaningful intimate interaction, the church is too often “God’s Frozen People.”
In my childhood I was very shy. I was scared of women and didn’t date till I was a senior in college. I never went to a dance. But gradually I became more outgoing and married. But more than 30 years ago, after being re singled, I was insecure and depressed. Many women reacted negatively to me, sensing neediness and insecurity. But slowly, over time, after experience the Stan Dale workshops, some sex surrogacy training, Esalen massage training and lots of G-spot massage experience I found women strangely attracted to me…especially once they started to experience my touch. For many years I thought all men were naturally, wonderfully intimate and I was just far behind. But so many women started telling me they had seldom experienced men with good touch and intimacy skills and I began to wonder why. I have concluded that many men want to be more intimate but haven’t learned how.
Example: A couple had me do Esalen massage on the women. After a while the man came upstairs to see how we were doing and got turned on seeing his nude girlfriend on my table. He jumped in wanting to be sexual with her. As he was poking and groping her body parts he asked how things were going. She replied “Great until you came up”. Sometimes honest communications can be embarrassing but he did get the message that at that time she wanted the intimacy of massage not poking and groping.
On the other hand, not everyone is going to become interested in real intimacy. Being intimate is much more threatening and difficult for many than just having recreational sex with strangers. But for me I don’t enjoy sex without intimacy, but often enjoy intimacy even without sex. My purpose is to show the various sexual intimacy options so people can relate to whatever they choose is most fulfilling for them.
I enjoy physical intimacy with a wide variety of women who also enjoy good touch, cuddling, massage, caressing etc. I have lots of ideas for more intimacy based on many years of teaching intimacy workshops for couples, counseling many couples as well as hearing from a huge number of men that are seeking more intimacy from sex workers. I have been a speaker at national swing conventions hosted massage rooms and led the Phoenix Couples Group that had 350 participants. I have been professionally trained and teach Esalen massage, which many women have enjoyed. I offer free massage to sex workers/dancers/massage therapists. Or, I offer what I call a non-sexual cuddle and caress experience so many women enjoy. Yes, I also enjoy sex but not “just sex” without intimacy with the great sex.
I first got interested in sexwork after not knowing how to help the zillions of single guys that were interested in “hands on” such as the Phoenix Couples group. However, most couples for good reasons seek other couples.
I was amazed at the openness in different cultures when I traveled to the Philippines and sex areas of Bangkok and especially Pattaya. Then I found Canada more practical and of course none of the legal issues of the U.S. I was amazed at some great my type of intimacy especially with the many Eastern European women and especially in the strip clubs and my favorite – nude-reverse-release adult massage places in Mississauga (Toronto airport).
I have zero interest in gawking at naked dancers but enjoy them in my lap, caressing, massaging them and the great response I often get like “why can’t my boyfriend learn to touch like this.”
Back to my conservative Christian days in Minneapolis, I was a lonely 20 year old too shy to meet women but found myself in a Jesus Church in downtown Minneapolis. So many attractive women with all that reaching up to God but not out to one another.
I was so lonely for female touch, I with great fear went a few blocks into the bowls of sin – a strip club. My experiences were amazing. Wonderful intimate interaction with nude women in my arms and lap. I befriended one dancer and drove her somewhere once. I told her about my experience in the Jesus People Church and she said, “Oh yes Rev xxxx, I to there about once a week to service him with sex.! True story.
My interest in sexwork still is more on the intimacy side not just the usual sex. But I have been an outspoken advocate for positive sexuality and the benefits of sexwork in various forms. I have hosted the Phoenix Private List all about sexwork in Phoenix since 1996. Currently it includes about 350 Phoenix area companions where legal, safety, industry information is shared twice a month and special alerts with stings etc.
I especially became interested in sex surrogacy work and the book “Reaching Intimacy – A male sex surrogates perspective” by e sex surrogate (licensed) Dr. Jerry De Haan. I introduced him at a swing group meeting and he gave me all the extra copies of his book from his trunk when we met in LA, when it went out of print in the 1990’s. I thought it was one of the most loving books I had read about his doing sex surrogacy out of his home. He has since long retired.
I had known Tracy for quite a few years from the Private List but have never had any interest in Tantra or Eastern/Goddess etc spiritual beliefs other than the fact how sex positive they are. I totally respect their beliefs and the positive healing work they do with spiritual sexuality. I have done about 140 issues of the special Phoenix Temple List going to about 100 folks keeping up on all the legal issues related to the Temple. I have attended almost all of the court hearings and report extensively after each. I 100% support their legal battle and the rights of all Americans for in private consenting adult sexwork, enjoyed without legal issues in almost all the world except the U.S.